Ryan McGinley
For the past two years, Ryan McGinley has traveled throughout the US, UK, France and Mexico attending Morrissey concerts and photographing every conceivable aspect and angle of the performances. We walked through McGinley's exhibition 'Irregular Regulars' at New York's TEAM gallery (until 10 February) and discussed the individual stories behind each of the 20 images he culled from the thousands he took.
Perhaps the most revealing image on view in the show hangs in the gallery's second room against the far wall, and depicts McGinley himself a few feet away from the singer with a security guard's burly arm hooked around his neck as he is evicted from the stage. The shot was taken before McGinley received permission from Morrissey to professionally photograph the concerts. At that time, McGinley was following Morrissey tours along with other dedicated fans but smuggled a camera into the show in his underwear, and gave it to a friend to take the shot of his attempt to touch his idol. Positioned at the end of the TEAM Gallery's show, this image testifies to McGinley's personal, emotional investment in his subject, explains his evident empathy for his fellow fans, and confesses to his conflicted role as artist and fan. Because he is in the image's foreground and the security guard's arm is not initially clear, it looks at first as though McGinley is performing on stage and Morrissey, with his unbuttoned shirt and open mouth, could be his back-up singer. A silent gallery full of still photographs is far from a teeming concert and art-celebrity is a cottage industry compared to rock-stardom. But this image of McGinley himself as a fan demonstrates his understanding that transforming the adoration of someone else's art into his own separate, moving and beautiful work is a uniquely complex and humbling quest.
Coincidently, a New York Magazine cover story enshrining McGinley and his best friends Dash Snow and Dan Colen as New York art-stars ran the same week that McGinley's show opened. It noted that, "At one point, someone yelled from a crowd in front of the Shore Club, 'There goes Ryan McGinley, the famous artist. He gets more famous every day!'" Standing before McGinley's Morrissey images, one wonders what medium another artist would use to create such a fine, enduring homage to him.
Evidence of his early admission into photography's canon was his inclusion alongside historic shots by Diane Arbus, Larry Clark, Robert Frank, Richard Avedon and Gordon Parks in 'Americans: Masterpieces of American Photography from 1940 until now,' which was at Austria's Kunsthalle Wien from 3 November to 4 February.
Next, McGinley has just completed his first piece of public art in Vienna. He wrapped his now-iconic images of blissful, beautiful kids playing naked in adolescent idylls around a building near the Karlsplatz, one of Vienna's most frequently used subway stops, which the city donated to the Kunsthalle. The installation will be up for one year offering harassed commuters moments of escapist revelry.
ANA FINEL HONIGMAN: How do you select whom to photograph?
RYAN MCGINLEY: I have permission to shoot the first three songs from the area between the stage and the front-row. When the concert starts I look out at all the fans in the front row. You can see that look in their eyes, that gaze. At that moment, it's like boom, I start shooting. The first photo in this exhibition [Untitled, Morrissey 25] is of a girl in Guadalajara Mexico who literally waited on line for 24 hours to secure her spot in the front row. I spent a lot of time photographing her. She had this look of love and desperation that was intense. She was losing her mind. She was leaning as far forward as she possibly could over the barricade to get closer to Morrissey. The stage was inaccessible but she was still reaching, it didn't seem to matter. Those four extra inches were really important to her.
'Untitled, Morrissey 25'
AFH: Were there significant cultural differences in fans? Behavior in the different countries where you were shooting?
RM: Yes, the fans are very different in different countries. The Mexican fans were extremely emotional. Mexico was amazing! There was lots of crying. I loved it.
AFH: Are they mostly fluent enough to understand the songs?
RM: Most of the fans I encountered in Mexico spoke broken English if any at all, but it didn't matter. They knew all the words to the songs.
AFH: So his music becomes a blank canvas for fans to put their yearning. Some things are universal.
RM: I was in the Czech Republic once, in Bruno. I got into a cab with a driver who didn't speak any English. I asked him to take me to the gay bar but he didn't understand. Finally, through many awkward hand gestures, I described to him where I wanted to go. He drove me 30 minutes to the outskirts of the city. I thought he was going to kill me. Then we pulled up to this house in the suburbs.
AFH: Was it his house?
RM: No, it was just a regular house though. I could hear music coming from inside of it. He directed me towards the basement. I walked in and there was about sixty guys in there all singing to Madonna. It was one of the craziest things I've ever seen. I got a beer and started talking to some people then realized no one could speak English. No one knew English but they knew all the words to those Madonna songs.
AFH: I guess people pray in Latin without knowing how to read Latin.
RM: That's true. I can recite the Spanish introduction to that Jane's Addiction song "Stop" but I can't speak Spanish.
'Untitled, Morrissey 11'
AFH: Who is this English hooligan in the next shot [Untitled, Morrissey 11]? He is the antithesis of what I'd think of as a typical Morrissey fan. Or are you not interested in finding typical fans or even representatives of different demographics of Morrissey fan?
RM: I'm not. I'm looking only for how people respond to the music. I take into consideration how the fans look but really it's about how they love him. The girl we were just talking about reminds me of an actress from a Godard film. She had a great look and she is giving this amazing performance of her genuine love for him. This guy's a NED, it's an English term. He's the description of every person you ever think of when you hear the word juvenile delinquent. His picture could fit seamlessly into the book 'Resistance Through Rituals'.
AFH: Does Morrissey tour continuously?
RM: No, it's not like he's the Grateful Dead but he tours a lot. There was a point in his career when he didn't have a record deal for seven years, which is insane to me, but that's why we love him, because he doesn't give a fuck. He does exactly what he wants to do and doesn't take shit from anybody.
'Untitled, Morrissey 6'
AFH: This boy [Untitled, Morrissey 6] is what I'd envision as the ideal Morrissey fan. He just looks like a young poet. He's so beautiful that he just transcends gender or any descriptive other than beautiful and young.
RM: That's Oliver. He was my boyfriend at the time when I was touring in 2004. He came to many shows with me. I took this one after the concert ended in Glasgow. I like to take the photographs after the concert when people are dazed and beaten up from being in the crowd. I like it when they're all depleted, they have their guard down. I love photographing people when they are preoccupied and unaware of me and my camera. After the concert fans are searching for their friends and just out of it, usually wandering aimlessly.
AFH: And the venue is similarly spent, right?
RM: Yes, it's the aftermath. Cigarettes and beer cups everywhere. It's burnt out and dirty, it's beautiful because it's a perfect mess. The next photograph is the one my gallerist Jose and I call the "rainbow photograph." All the photographs are called "Untitled (Morrissey)" numbers 1-25 but we give them little nicknames too. This one [Untitled, Morrissey 16] is the rainbow photograph because it contains the whole color spectrum.
'Untitled, Morrissey 16'
AFH: Does the dreaminess of the rainbow coloration contrast or compliment the mood at the moment you took that photograph?
RM: It definitely adds another level. It's such a physical image and the rainbow spectrum puts it in the clouds. They work well together. I took it in Aberdeen and those where some of the craziest fans. The Scottish fans were the most aggressive. They would throw beers at the stage during the show and shout at Morrissey. I love all those arms and hands jutting out towards the stage in this image. It is just a ball of energy.
AFH: Where was your positioning when this picture [Untitled Morrissey 16] was taken?
RM: I was shooting behind the metal barrier from the perspective of the fans in the front row. Everyone else could anchor themselves with their hands on the barricade but since I had my hands on the camera my abdomen got crushed during the concert. Then the next day I woke up and my chest was just one big gigantic black bruise.
'Untitled, Morrissey 22'
AFH: This next image [Untitled, Morrissey 22] of the close up on this person's face really illustrates that manic energy.
RM: It was taken at the moment during the concert when Morrissey takes off his shirt and throws it into the audience. People go crazy. The only way I can describe it is animalistic behavior. It's total chaos. People are biting each others knuckles and ripping the shirt to pieces. Sometimes the security has to come into the crowd and cut up the shirt with scissors. This image is a close crop of this guy's face as he is screaming at war for the shirt.
AFH: You were telling me before that a lot of people mistake this guy's face for a girl.
RM: The funny thing about some of these pictures is that a lot of people confuse the boys for girls or vice versa. I guess there are a lot of genderless photos in the show. I'm always so confused when people start talking about the photo of that boy's face, or that girl's face, until they point out the picture. I like that.
AFH: The picture recalls images of shrieking teenybopper Beatles fans. Do you think that's why he gets gender reassignment?
RM: There is a photograph down the line that I think better references the Beatles fan photographs but basically, those photographs of fans going crazy are burned into our minds. When I was researching this project I was looking a lot at those Beatles photos and at Weegee's photos of crowds and was very inspired. There is an element of idol-worship to these. These are all photographs taken at Morrissey concerts but if you took them out of context, they could apply to any concert. They are really about the gaze, the energy and the worship of a rock star.
'Untitled, Morrissey 23'
AFH: What about this next photograph [Untitled, Morrissey 23]?
RM: Our nickname for this one is "the hulk" because he's all green.
AFH: How are you getting these colors?
RM: The colors are the result of film experimentation. Before I go to the concerts, I expose the film to different lights - Daylight, television light, tungsten light, sunsets, colored lights, morning light, basically all kinds of light. I expose the roll and then shoot it again at the shows. Between exposing the film and utilizing the intense stage lighting, i've got a process down to achieve new color palates.
AFH: How did you select this green guy?
RM: After I'm done photographing between the stage and the barricade I usually go into the crowd. I maneuver through the sea of people and make my way back up to the front. I'm like a hunter, I want to hunt people and find the ones who are really moved by the music. I love being surrounded on all sides by people, feeling the energy and the body heat and the sweat. My favorite part of photographing in the crowd is that the fans are the most distracted and not paying attention to me shooting. Most of the time they don't even know I'm there. It's like I'm invisible. I can move from person to person throughout the show and shoot everyone and anyone for as long as I need. Sometimes it's intimidating and difficult to shoot like this. You need the right sort of personality and mindset. You've got to think to yourself, 'this is my job.'
'Untitled, Morrissey 4'
AFH: Is this [Untitled, Morrissey 4] the Beatles-inspired one?
RM: This is one of my favorite photographs in the show. The girl in the front center is amazing. Her name is Lucy and she tours with her father, Andy, who is also in a photograph in the exhibition. They are from Essex and Andy has been attending Morrissey concerts since Morrissey was in The Smiths. Now he brings his daughter to the shows. She cries when Morrissey comes on stage. She's so beautiful and so camera shy. I would always try and take her photo but she would never let me. This is as close as I could get.
AFH: Are the fans the subject of the show for you, or is it Morrissey and his unique effect on people?
RM: Every photograph in this exhibition is a building block to make up the experience of going to a concert. I wanted to show what it would look like and feel like if you were to attend a Morrissey concert. In the crowd, above the crowd, the front row, the venue, the stage, the lights, everything.
'Untitled, Morrissey 8'
AFH: You've said before that this next one [Untitled, Morrissey 8] reminds you of Leni Riefenstahl?
RM: I like the crowd photos because they could be anywhere where a group of people have gathered. It could be a concert, it could be a rally, and it could even be a political protest. It reminds me of Riefenstahl because everyone has their arms raised in the air with their hands out.
'Untitled, Morrissey 1'
AFH: Is this [Untitled, Morrissey 1] a self- portrait?
RM: Yes, it was taken before I had permission to photograph the shows. I would come to the shows with two Yashica T4 cameras stashed in my underwear and many rolls of film stuffed in my socks. I would jump up on stage at each show and bring him flowers and give him hugs and kisses. It's a tradition for people to rush onstage to show their love and gratitude for Morrissey. In this photograph, I had just jumped up on the stage and I'm being yanked off by security. I loved doing that, I miss it. It was exciting and a challenge. It's such a fun little game, because you have to wait for the perfect moment and dodge the security and do it all in one motion. It's a hop, skip and a jump kind of thing.
AFH: Does security allow that?
RM: Yes and no. He has his own security just for this reason. They are very nice. They understand why people jump on stage, but often there will be the venue's security too. They can be really mean and they can hurt people. Often Morrissey will yell at them to let someone go. If someone tried to jump, didn't make it, and the security was rough with them, Morrissey will stop in the middle of a song and yell, "Hey you, get your hands off that person!"
AFH: So he is a benevolent God.
RM: Totally.
AFH: Do you consider this image [Untitled, Morrissey 1], located at the very back of the show, almost as a confession? Did you situate it here as a way to reveal to people, after they've seen most of the show, that you are also a fan. It's not documentary photography for you. It's personal.
RM: I wanted people to know that I'm doing this project because it's something I feel very passionate about and devoted to. As much as I am a photographer, I am also a fan. It's amazing when you can do two things you love. Make photographs while listening to Morrissey. This wasn't an assignment. Before I had access, I was just another kid jumping on the stage.
AFH: Would you ever do this for another performer?
RM: No, never. After doing it for Morrissey, how could I? It would just be insulting.
'Untitled, Morrissey 10'
AFH: This next one [Untitled, Morrissey 10] seems very cinematic, romantic and genuine.
RM: I was looking through the camera panning the crowd and stopped on this boy who was looking at me. It was one of those split second moments. I was looking for him after the show but never found him. It's amazing to be in a huge crowd and have that moment with someone across the way. We were just staring at each other and then that's it, never again. This photograph always reminds me of that scene from Woody Allen's film 'Stardust Memories'. Where he sits in his train and sees a beautiful woman in a train on the opposite set of tracks and she blows him a kiss as her train pulls out of the station.
AFH: And of course, during the making of all these images, there is loud, intense, powerful music. And it is the music these people love and want to be surrounded with.
RM: Of course, I keep having to remind people and myself that when these photos were created when a concert was happening and music is breaking down your sensory barriers. It's somehow so easy to forget that.
AFH: Have you contacted Morrissey himself about the show?
RM: I don't think he has seen the show yet. He's not my friend or anything. I've met him a few times and he's always been very nice. He knows I am doing the project and he knows my work. He just lets me do my thing. It is nice though, because sometimes during shows, I'll look up and see him on stage looking right at me. It puts a smile on my face and makes it all worth it. It's just nice to be noticed by someone who means so much to you.
AFH: Is there one image here that you think is your favorite?
RM: Yes, this next one of this older woman [Untitled, Morrissey 15]. I love her style. She pushes a heavy Marilyn Monroe - Marlene Dietrich look. She's always in the front row. I think this one really gets what I was talking to you earlier about the gaze. It's about that pale yellow but really it's all about her dark, black eye. Her eye says everything I need to say in this project. It's the answer.
'Untitled, Morrissey 15'
AFH: I am almost surprised that you have a favorite.
RM: I just love this one because it really says what I want to say. Whenever I'm narrowing down the photographs that make up an exhibition, I ask myself which would I want on the wall in my own place, to live with all the time. This is the one.
AFH: Are you still going to the shows?
RM: Yes always.
AFH: Will you be shooting?
RM: I don't know. I don't want to end it yet. It's an addiction. This will eventually be a book. I'm so emotionally attached to making photographs at his concerts. I just love his music and it means a lot to me to be there with these other people who love him too.
AFH: But these are images that can resonate with people with no connection to Morrissey.
RM: Anyone into music can understand what it is like to be a fan. It's about worshipping something.
)
)